NFL 2009 - All in One?

[R_of_G]

the price was pretty high for edwards. i think stuckey has a bright future as a receiver in the nfl. you know, after he leaves cleveland. :thwap

and marnold you are right. winning atmosphere, jets? i've been a fan, literally my whole life as my parents went to games during my mom's pregnancy. winning is not something i associate with the jets. hopefully rex changes that.

 

[R_of_G]

ok, here's one for cleveland fans...

just how backwards are things with the browns anyway?

put aside that they fired the gm not the coach. they both deserve to be fired.

my question though is this...

i keep hearing that this gm was hired because mangini wanted him.

since when does the coach pick the gm?

what on earth is the deal with that?

that is fairly illustrative of why things are the way they are with the browns.

well, at least the browns can start over next year with another new coach.

but let me warn you guys now, in the event things go this way for you...

BEWARE OF JON GRUDEN

the man is a joke

he's a terrible coach

his stint on monday night football shows that he is not as knowledgeable as he likes to think he is

i know cleveland fans want cowher but if that doesn't happen, i can see them going after gruden because he's from ohio.

that would be a HUGE mistake

take it from the person who told you mangini was a trainwreck

 

[just strum]

It's so good to have someone remind me of the pain. Just after reading the local paper 10 minutes ago, you bring it up again.

Supposedly Eric talked up the GM in his first interview with the ownership and the rest is history. If you want to find Bronco fans, Pittsburgh fans, New England fans, Colts fans, or even Raven fans - come to Cleveland. At least this weekend we are guaranteed we won't lose.

The rumor flowing around town is Marty will be back in Cleveland soon.

No one really knows what is going to happen.

My thoughts - GO CAVS!!!!

 

[R_of_G]

The rumor flowing around town is Marty will be back in Cleveland soon.

how much will it cost for him to take his son with him and thus, away from the jets? how brian schottenheimer managed to keep his job with the regime change in new york baffles me. it doesn't matter who the personnel is or what their strengths are, schottenheimer calls the same plays week in and week out.

 

[marnold]

The Browns have the same root problem my Lions have: ownership.

By the by, won't that Lions/Browns tilt be one for the ages?

 

[just strum]

The thing that will always amaze me is how quick the Browns were in picking up Eric. It wasn't like he was a coach that other NFL teams were beating down the door to get.

Personally I think their quick hiring and what will probably be a quick firing, will only make it more difficult to attract a real NFL coach.

But that's just my opinion and Randy Lerner has yet to call me and ask for my opinion.

 

[luvmyshiner]

Randy Lerner has yet to call me and ask for my opinion.

Strummy, he called me last week and I suggested he give you a shout. I even gave him your cell phone number. I hope that's ok.

 

[just strum]

Strummy, he called me last week and I suggested he give you a shout. I even gave him your cell phone number. I hope that's ok.

Hey, I can't complain, I've given yours out to a number of people, even wrote it on a few walls.oke

 

[luvmyshiner]

That would explain all those midnight phone calls from truckers.:what

 

[just strum]

The Browns haven't lost for two Sunday's in a row. The streak is ALIVE!!!

 

[R_of_G]

The Browns haven't lost for two Sunday's in a row. The streak is ALIVE!!!

mangini deserves a raise.

 

[just strum]

mangini deserves a raise.

If the Ravens embarrass the Browns on Monday night football, I want to see if that will cause Lerner to sack Mangini.

It's hard to think of a coach for the Browns that was ever more disliked. Jamal Lewis slammed him in the media by stating that the players are spent by the time Sunday roles around. He later claims to be misquoted, but it was clear what he said. Jamal is a hard nose player that is respected for his hard work, I certainly don't take his comments as some whining pampered player lashing out.

 

[R_of_G]

so someone tell me again what a "genius" bill bellichick is.

all i can say about last night's game is ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!

by going for it on 4th down, with that little time left, with a lead, bellichick told his defense loud and clear "i do not trust you to keep peyton manning from going 80 yards." instead, he gave peyton the chance to only have to go 30 yards. some genius. even if they'd made the first down, the message to the defense is loud and clear.

 

[marnold]

by going for it on 4th down, with that little time left, with a lead, bellichick told his defense loud and clear "i do not trust you to keep peyton manning from going 80 yards." instead, he gave peyton the chance to only have to go 30 yards. some genius. even if they'd made the first down, the message to the defense is loud and clear.

If this were anyone else, he would be crucified right now. I saw a bit of ESPN this morning where Merril Hoge said it was the right call. I agree with him inasmuch as they've gone on some crazy fourth downs before. Part of me likes that because it seems like coaches tend to play so that they can blame the kicker rather than playing to win.

However, Hoge said he did it because he trusted his defense. He did it because he absolutely did not trust his defense at all. I can understand that to an extent, since the Colts had just driven 79 yards in 1:49. Their previous scoring drive was 79 yards in 2:04. Tedy Bruschi has a surprisingly candid take on it:

As a former defender on that team, I would've cared less about the result of that fourth-down attempt. The decision to go for it would be enough to make my blood boil for weeks. Bill Belichick sent a message to his defense. He felt that his chances were better to go for it on his own 28-yard line than to punt it away and make Peyton Manning have to drive the majority of the field to win the game.

 

[R_of_G]

i agree entirely marnold. any other coach, it wouldn't even be a question. in fact, for some, it might have meant their jobs.

i too saw hoge's commentary this morning and was fairly shocked by it, though i temper it with remembering he was an offensive player. i've yet to hear anything from anyone who played on the defensive side of the ball that would indicate anything other than disagreement with bellichick's decision.

when it comes down to it, you have to put your defense out there and believe they will make a stop.

what does this say about the future for the patriots when they play teams with good qb's? they will likely have to play manning again in the playoffs and/or phillip rivers or carson palmer or drew brees. will they try to hide their defense from those guys too?

i have to admit, with the feelings i have about bellichick (mostly stemming from the classless way he quit the jets' job) i find this whole situation hilarious.

 

[marnold]

Next week we have the classic case of movable object v. resistible force as Strummy's Browns visit my Lions! I fear that the two teams will create a vortex of suck that will tear the very fabric of existence to shreds.

 

[R_of_G]

Next week we have the classic case of movable object v. resistible force as Strummy's Browns visit my Lions! I fear that the two teams will create a vortex of suck that will tear the very fabric of existence to shreds.

is it possible that the final score will have negative numbers?

 

[piebaldpython]

Well....what a SHOCK that the Lions/Browns managed to put on a scorefest of a game. Damn, scoring left and right. Still, having watched football for DECADES....I've never seen anything like the end of that game. Poor Strum. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of Victory. lol

On the other hand...the Shiner/CB Cowboys put on yet another lethargic display of BORING offense. Good Lord....did somebody take the spice out of their pre-game chili? :thwap

Hooray to my IGGLES for rebounding against the Bears.

 

[evenkeel]

On the other hand...the Shiner/CB Cowboys put on yet another lethargic display of BORING offense. Good Lord....did somebody take the spice out of their pre-game chili? :thwap
Hooray to my IGGLES for rebounding against the Bears.

It's amazing the Cowgirls managed to actually win one of the last two. 13 points, over eight quarters of football!!! Four of those quarters against the Redskins!!! The wheels have come off the bus on that offense. :thwap

Good on the Iggles for squeeking it out, but yikes there was some ugly football. Some very dopey fumbles and dumb penalties. Iggles need a running game. Can't rely on Jackson to make 20-30 yard catches.

Anybody think a Colts vs Saints Superbowl, both with perfect records is possible?? :what

 

[just strum]

Well Marnold, the game was the most entertaining from a Browns point of view. We scored (a rarity), we learned that Quinn can throw the ball more than 15 yards. He actually performed better than anyone here thought he could. Granted he was up against a bad defense, but then again so was Detroit.

People here enjoyed the game, even the outcome. We got to see some offense without losing our draft choice position (that is the brass ring these days in Cleveland). Now we just have to hope that EM is on the first bus out of town at the end of the season or he will trade the pick away so he can get some more NY Jets cast offs.

 

[marnold]

Just saw on ESPN.com that Mangini accused the Lions of having their defensive players feign injury to slow down their offense. Kay.

I was shocked to see it was a scorefest too--almost exactly doubling the over-under for the game. Stafford showed some serious moxie, but unfortunately that may keep him out against a banged-up Packers team on Thursday. All the Lions need now is an offensive line, a defensive line, defensive backs, a power runner, and a second WR threat. After that, they should be golden.

 

[just strum]

I was shocked to see it was a scorefest too--almost exactly doubling the over-under for the game. Stafford showed some serious moxie, but unfortunately that may keep him out against a banged-up Packers team on Thursday. All the Lions need now is an offensive line, a defensive line, defensive backs, a power runner, and a second WR threat. After that, they should be golden.

Exactly what Cleveland needs - well, all that and a quarterback. :thwap

 

[R_of_G]

someone remind me what it was all the doubters and haters had to doubt and hate about vince young

all the guy does is win football games

"he'll never be a pocket passer" they said

that 99 yard game winning drive today sure looked to me to feature a whole lot of passing out of the pocket

i'd buy the explanation that people questioned vince after his alleged emotional meltdown last year when he was replaced by kerry collins, but he had every right to be upset about it as he lost his job to injury not to poor play, and moreover, young's critics were out there long before that.

all i know is that jeff fisher looks like a moron right now. he benched young in favour of kerry collins and had to be overruled by the team owner, who now looks like a genius because all the titans have done since giving vince back the starting job is win every game they've played.

i'll be the first to admit, i have a bias towards players from colleges associated with my family, but texas or no texas, vince young is now and always has been a winner.

oh and btw, the jets finally won another game. yay!

 

[just strum]

In todays paper Eric stated he would be the coach for next season. They also had an article about Braylon Edwards and how he will never take responsibility for his performance. Prior to today the Jets were 1 and 5 over the six games since Edwards has been there.

The Jets and the Browns would go a long way if they cut off communication with each other.

Peyton Manning has been incredible.

 

[R_of_G]

i didn't think it was up to mangini if the browns fired him or not

as for edwards, the jets performance over the previous 6 weeks can hardly be attributed to him. he's not been playing well, but he is hardly the problem and in the long run, he was exactly what the jets needed, a legitimate #1 receiver. he will get things straightened out.

the jets real issues lie in the front office and the coaching staff (minus rex ryan). until tannenbaum is not the gm and rex can pick his own coaching staff, the jets will suffer the same fate they always have.

this is why we are stuck with vernon gholston and his giant salary.

this is why we will never get leon washington to re-sign next year when he returns from his broken leg, because tannenbaum refused to pay the man what he deserved.

this is why we are stuck with brian schottenheimer as offensive coordinator despite the fact the he calls the same plays no matter who is on the team.

is it too simplistic to suggest personnel should dictate playing style?

you cannot just declare a "system" and make players fit into it. you have to develop a system for the players you have.

tannenbaum has never understood this concept.

 

[piebaldpython]

is it too simplistic to suggest personnel should dictate playing style?

you cannot just declare a "system" and make players fit into it. you have to develop a system for the players you have..

The above statement just doesn't pertain to football, but to ANY sport.....in the short term. One can't expect plow-horses to be thoroughbreds.

That being said......if the "nature" of the game is a thoroughbred style of game, unless the plow-horse style can exert it's WILL, then one better start getting some thoroughbreds or they'll be eating dust. oke

This happened to the Philadelphia Flyers in hockey. Their brawling style was intimidating......but at a certain point of time it COST them dearly when playing teams that had changed to the speedier, European style of play.

 

[R_of_G]

i agree pbp.

not only must you develop a system around the personnel you have (or get personnel to fit your system), but to be successful, a team needs to adapt its play to the type of play throughout the league.

games change as different generations of athletes come to prominence.

there are fads and there are legitimate trends. the good coaches and gms should know the difference and make sure their teams are well-suited to adapt.

 

[R_of_G]

J-E-T-S
Jets
Jets
Jets!

had to be said

i know, they only played the "real" colts for half the game, but they also held those "real" colts to only 9 points.

if the jets could only muster a competent passing game to complement their top-ranked running game and number one defense, they could be a contender, but at this point, in year one under rex ryan, i am thrilled that they are heading into the final week of the season with control of their own playoff hopes. with a new coach and a rookie qb, everybody wrote them off before this season started, now they are poised to have the same record as last year and make the playoffs and why? the theme i return to all the time... defense.

whether or not the offense can score, the jets defense is as good as it gets in the nfl right now. when he came out of college three years ago, i said darrelle revis would be the best cover cornerback in football within two years. now everyone sees it. the guy shuts down every top wide-out in the league. passing consistently against the jets is simply not possible with revis out there which allows the jets to stuff the box to stop the run (though the injury to jenkins really creates a void in the middle that it now takes two guys to fill).

so my expectations are that they can beat the bengals and get in to the playoffs. after that, let's see whether they play new england or the bengals again and i will re-evaluate my predictions. one week at a time, one week at a time.

 

[Eric]

i didn't think it was up to mangini if the browns fired him or not

as for edwards, the jets performance over the previous 6 weeks can hardly be attributed to him. he's not been playing well, but he is hardly the problem and in the long run, he was exactly what the jets needed, a legitimate #1 receiver. he will get things straightened out.

the jets real issues lie in the front office and the coaching staff (minus rex ryan). until tannenbaum is not the gm and rex can pick his own coaching staff, the jets will suffer the same fate they always have.

this is why we are stuck with vernon gholston and his giant salary.

this is why we will never get leon washington to re-sign next year when he returns from his broken leg, because tannenbaum refused to pay the man what he deserved.

this is why we are stuck with brian schottenheimer as offensive coordinator despite the fact the he calls the same plays no matter who is on the team.

is it too simplistic to suggest personnel should dictate playing style?

you cannot just declare a "system" and make players fit into it. you have to develop a system for the players you have.

tannenbaum has never understood this concept.

Hmm...maybe I'll venture into these uncharted football waters...

Reading your post, I have a couple of comments. First off, the current front office regime also picked Revis, who is widely regarded as hands-down the best CB in the league right now. While there are some clunkers, there are also bright spots. Thomas Jones has been a positive too, wouldn't you agree?

Also, it's kind of a push as to whether you adapt your system to fit your personnel or get the personnel to fit your system. Most seem to opt for the latter from what I've seen, which is why Anthony Ferguson and Pepper Johnson played on pretty much every Bill Parcells team...ever.

The conflict with the Jets could easily be due to Rex Ryan being an uncooperative a$$hole which, by all appearances, he is. It's a two-way street, the personnel-coaching thing, and immature coaches can make a front office look bad if they don't cooperate and use the players appropriately.

 

[R_of_G]

Glad you joined the conversation Eric. I was missing the football talk.

First off, the current front office regime also picked Revis, who is widely regarded as hands-down the best CB in the league right now. While there are some clunkers, there are also bright spots. Thomas Jones has been a positive too, wouldn't you agree?

Revis was a no-brainer.

Then again, I went to a Big East school and follow the conference, so I watched most of the guy's games at Pitt and knew he was going to be spectacular.

I'm not even saying that Tannenbaum always picks the wrong guy but I do think the Gholston pick was a disaster, and it was fairly obvious in almost every scouting report that Gholston was not NFL-ready (and may never be). That would have been a pick better suited for (a) a second shut-down corner to complement Revis (someone like Aqib Talib or Mike Jenkins) or (b) a linebacker like Jerrod Mayo who became a star immediately, or best of all (c) trading down to get more picks. When there isn't an obvious pick, I am a big proponent of trading down to get more picks.

I'm also still not sold on D'Brickashaw Ferguson. They say he's learning, but every Jets game I watch, when Sanchez is pressured, it's always Ferguson's man to block that gets to him.

As for Thomas Jones, you will never hear (read) me say a negative thing about Thomas Jones. I think he is the most underrated back in football and I was thrilled when the Jets picked him up. He's been nothing but dependable ever since and I think he is best asset on offense the team has. Unfortunately, Schottenheimer doesn't call appropriate plays for him all the time, and second and more unfortunately, Leon broke his leg and is not going to be under contract next year and will very likely go elsewhere. Part of what makes Jones great is having a change of pace back like Leon to pair him with. I am thrilled they got Shonn Greene, but he is another back just like Jones. They will miss Leon.

The conflict with the Jets could easily be due to Rex Ryan being an uncooperative a$$hole which, by all appearances, he is. It's a two-way street, the personnel-coaching thing, and immature coaches can make a front office look bad if they don't cooperate and use the players appropriately.

I have no idea where that comes from. The players seem to love him. The fans sure love him. He gave Jets fans what we have wanted since the days of the New York Sack Exchange, a dominating defense. It is not Ryan's fault that Brian Schottenheimer calls the same offensive plays every single game no matter the situation or the opponent. It is not Ryan's fault that Tannenbaum was too cheap to pay Leon Washington what he deserved. Ryan has done wonders with this team in just a single season and the future looks bright if we can get the passing game going. I just hope Ryan gets a little more say in the draft process. They seemed to listen to him with the free agents and thus we got Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard and Lito Sheppard, all of whom have contributed greatly. Now let him pick the rookies too.