NFL 2012 [American Football Content]

[Tig]

Wow, the Texans finally get into the end zone during the 3rd quarter. Only 3 more TD's to catch up to the Pat's!

Final: 14-42

 

[sunvalleylaw]

That hurts! Sorry Tig! I really am not a Patriots fan, and though I respect his talent, not at all a Brady fan. I am really glad the Seahawks pulled out a win over those guys.

 

[kidsmoke]

Ok, General red blooded american sports fan here. I completely appreciate kool-aid fueled "arguments" over who's better, why, and what your mama did in the locker room with the o-line sorta banter that goes on between friends and co-workers.....get involved in those all the time, and fortunately, the smiles increase with the venom instilled in the argument and all ends well.

that is NOT what I'm looking to start here. i am looking for an honest objective explanation of what people's problem is with Brady. Yes, as you guys know, I lived my entire developmental life within an hour of Boston, and those franchises are my favorites....pick a sport. So I'm decidedly biased. But I'm not argumentative in a serious manner at all when it comes to this. Ya'll know i covet the tenor of this forum and wouldn't rock that boat for anything.

So go ahead, explain it to me. pretend I'm Ndamukong Suh's grandma, and I'm incredulous as to what ANYONE could possibly have against my baby. (sorry Rev, easiest example)

I ask. Because I hear that a lot (hatred of Brady), and in the context I described above, I am able to belligerently and obstinately defend my guy, making up stats if I wish!! and all's well (especially here in Chicago. boy do we have fun with that), and I don't trust that the points made against Brady's character are largely manufactured just for the sake of entertainment.

As a Pat's fan, part of our love for the guy, aside from success, is that he's the ultimate underdog. Tired story, but he wasn't supposed to be anything great, and he's in the discussion as one of the all time greats, blows out his knee, comes back BETTER, and will take every snap his coach will allow him to take. As a fan, well, you can't ask for more. As a Patriots fan, well, 12 years in we're still pinching ourselves hoping this hasn't been some weird dream.

so let me have it. I Trust you guys to give me an objective assessment

 

[NWBasser]

Hey Tio. No Brady hatin' here.

Except maybe when he's up against my Seahawks. Then he worries me.

He's a top-class QB any way you look at it and has the record to prove it (my objective assessment). With his significant success, I too wonder why people don't like him.

He is a lot of fun to watch as he dissects defenses with great plays. If he isn't ripping your own team apart, then what's not to like?

Then again, consider my hatin' attitude towards Roethlisberger. It was the stolen '05 Superbowl that put him squarely (and unfairly to be honest) into my permanent s*&$-list.

 

[kidsmoke]

there were a couple things I can understand. For the most part he comes across as a humble guy who really appreciates what's happening....but there was the time he actually laughed at Plaxico Burress's prediction of scoring less than 17 points in the SuperBowl. Even if every other human on the planet agreed with his assesment, that an unbeaten team who had just completed the single most prolific offensive season in the history of the game would suddenly go dormant, he should have avoided chuckling into the microphone. And of course, Strahan and Co. delivered, holding them to 14.

that and the fact he's a pretty boy. But trading on your celebrity as an endorser is simply practical and responsible, depending on what and how you sell.

But other than that. He shows up every snap of every game of every season and leaves it all on the field.

NW Basser, your Seahawks had his number this year, and may have another crack at him. congrats

 

[Tig]

Hey Tio. No Brady hatin' here.

Except maybe when he's up against my Seahawks. Then he worries me.

He's a top-class QB any way you look at it and has the record to prove it (my objective assessment). With his significant success, I too wonder why people don't like him.

He is a lot of fun to watch as he dissects defenses with great plays. If he isn't ripping your own team apart, then what's not to like?

^ Pretty much this. I can't think of a QB that I actually hate. There are so many talented ones out there that are enjoyable to watch unless they're beating your team, that is!

Brady has one of the best arms out there. Some hate Payton Manning, but he has redefined how good a QB can be with his extreme dedication to the position, studying his rivals and incredible work ethic. Just look how the Bronco's have upped their game to meet his high standards in just a handful of games. I could go on about other QB's but you get the point. Sure, some may have annoying personalities and over blown egos, but I watch them for their sporting abilities.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

I don't literally "hate" any athlete. I get annoyed with Brady partly out of jealousy I will admit, especially when against the Seahawks. *though they did handle the pats this year* But also, I dislike QB's that seem to get complainy or whiny with refs etc., or in the heat of the game, get a certain *look* on their faces, and to me, Brady can look that way at times. It is hard to explain, not logical, but there it is. John Elway was the same way for me. So it is more about personality displayed in the press and expressions and demeanor on the field. No denying he is a good QB.

After the latest Seahawks/Pats game, I thought about my emotional response toward him, realized some jealousy was involved, and also came to respect him and his efforts much more. I still thought he looked whiny and pouty sometimes out there, but I am sure that is just the competitor in him not liking how things were going in a loss. He just wears it on his face more than some others I suppose, and I can find that annoying. But now I chalk that up as being part of his intensity. Elway struck me as similar when he was out on the field, and he annoyed me too.

Also, he had some quotes before (and during) the latest Seahawks/Pats game that I am sure he would like to take back. That part gets the goat of a working class team and working class fan base of a team like Seattle every time.

Oh, and one other thing. It is not really Brady's fault, but he has been the darling of all the East coast based sports writers, who ALL predicted a Seahawks loss, and when the Seahawks won, treated as though the Pats lost the game, rather than the Seahawks winning the game. He to me seems, fairly or not, to be the poster child for that treatment as the head of the "New America's Team".

So there is my best attempt at a really honest answer. I don't "hate" him, do respect his abilities and his work ethic, but do find him to be annoying at times.

 

[NWBasser]

Oh, and one other thing. It is not really Brady's fault, but he has been the darling of all the East coast based sports writers, who ALL predicted a Seahawks loss, and when the Seahawks won, treated as though the Pats lost the game, rather than the Seahawks winning the game. He to me seems, fairly or not, to be the poster child for that treatment as the head of the "New America's Team".

I didn't know that about the East Coast sports writers.

But then again, I don't pay the least attention to them. My cat's litterbox is more important than their opinions.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Well, to be fair, that is just my perception, that East coast teams get all the press, and that West coast teams are comparatively ignored. But I admit that is a very biased opinion. It simply feels to me that sports are east coast centric. but then again, that is where most of the people live, and it is an entertainment industry.

Certainly nothing I have said here is intended as a swipe at our east coast fretter sports fans. They have every right to support their teams too. It is the fact that I trust those on this forum that allows me to speak so plainly about my opinions and biases.

 

[R_of_G]

From my perspective as a recovering Jets' fan (ie. someone who spent may years watching Tom Brady obliterate my team and the rest of the division) it's never been Brady himself, but the way the media handles Brady.

There's little to criticize about his game, though I will once again state that if pressure is applied consistently, Brady rattles very easily. Had I not watched him play in an era with Favre and Peyton Manning, I might say he was the best I've seen. Regardless of who's subjectively best, Brady is spectacular, and the Patriots fans owe a eternal debt of gratitude to the Jets' Mo Lewis for breaking Drew Bledsoe and forcing Brady into the starting role.

All that said, the media's perception of Brady, and it's east and west coast on this one, is entirely over-the-top. It's unsurprising as the media and the league have decided to market the "stars" and not the game itself. What you end up with is a sycophantic media that begins to believe the hype they themselves created. It brings us things like referring to last night's game as a "matchup between Tom Brady and Matt Schaub!" Anyone see them on the field at the same time at any moment? I didn't.

They do the same for all the "elite QBs" and pretend like Brady has never lost a game or thrown an INT or fumbled. I know it's fun for the media to pretend these guys are superheroes, but ultimately, even on his greatest day ever, Brady is a human and he will make mistakes.

I will at least say this, at least in the case of this particular media-sensationalism about a QB, the QB earned it first through his accomplishments on an NFL field.

ps, We all know Steve's comments are caused by his massive west coast bias. oke

 

[marnold]

I'm a Michigan man so I can't dislike Tom Brady.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

ps, We all know Steve's comments are caused by his massive west coast bias. oke

Hey, TK asked, so I tried to answer honestly!





And I agree with the rest of your comments regarding QB press and Brady press. I so respect a good, disciplined and skilled offensive line, and they rarely get any press. Also, really good defensive lineman, or linebackers, or tight ends, or . . .

 

[piebaldpython]

I think part of Brady-hatin' ties in with Belechick-hatin'.......Siamese twins joined and despised by the perception that they are both cold, arrogant and aloof..........that and of course, Brady is hated because of who he's with (supermodel Giselle Bunchen) and the string of lovely ladies he was with in the past.

I don't know about this East Coast writers love-affair with Brady. Can't it just be that they admire his talent for all the reasons listed in previous posts?

One final thought.......Comeback Player of the Year Award should be neck-and-neck between Peyton Manning (neck) and Adrian Peterson (knee). My vote is for Peterson who is the only gun in the Vikings offense.

 

[Tig]

One final thought.......Comeback Player of the Year Award should be neck-and-neck between Peyton Manning (neck) and Adrian Peterson (knee). My vote is for Peterson who is the only gun in the Vikings offense.

I just hope Peyton never has a serious hit that could injure his neck. He could be a quadriplegic in an instant.
Peterson is one of my favorite running backs. A natural that deserved more seasons, and he is certainly back.

Matt Schaub's foot injury last year was the typr that ends careers. so his return has been impressive.

Also, while he's not my favorite player, Ray Lewis' return this season was unexpected, showing how much he wanted to get back into the game.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

On the whole East Coast writers' thing, that is not so much about Brady. It is more my (very subjective and biased, chip on the shoulder included) perception that on a whole the sportswriters write in a way that makes it seem that traditionally powerful eastern teams win games, and when they are beaten, "give away" those games, rather than a western team like the Seahawks winning that game. If that makes any sense. That sports coverage goes back to when east coast sportswriters couldn't believe that western horse Seabiscuit could beat the great eastern horse War Admiral. But as I said, more people and more fans live on the eastern seaboard so it is logical the focus of the coverage is on teams and players over there.

Brady is just a beneficiary of that coverage. He doesn't write it, and can't really be held responsible for it. So the comment was only related to my answering the question of why I am not a fan. It is just one more aspect to be annoyed by, along with his apparent personality and demeanor on the field. The guy IS talented. But as R_of_G said, not immortal.

Oh, one other aspect to why I am not so much a fan: I am a fan of the working man, underdog player who does his job and does not get on the covers of all the magazines. Warren Moon, Plunkett, guys like that. The Elways, Staubachs, Favres, Montanas, etc. of the game are not my favorites. Respect them and their talents? Yes. Favorites? No.

Not sure that this wasn't TMI on this topic, but what the heck. We're among friends here!

 

[piebaldpython]

Oh, one other aspect to why I am not so much a fan: I am a fan of the working man, underdog player who does his job and does not get on the covers of all the magazines. Warren Moon, Plunkett, guys like that. The Elways, Staubachs, Favres, Montanas, etc. of the game are not my favorites. Respect them and their talents? Yes. Favorites? No.

Not sure that this wasn't TMI on this topic, but what the heck. We're among friends here!

Being friends here....I think Brady meets your "working man's definition"......he was drafted in the 6th round (out of 7 rounds) of the 2000 NFL draft......being drafted that low upset him and apparently he worked his butt off to become a really good QB. Of course it helped immensely to be playing with the Pats too with a good OL and such.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

@PBP, of course friends. . I am aware he has worked very hard to get where he is. That is one of the reasons I keep saying my opinion is very biased and subjective, as opposed to objective. And you make a good point. Like I said, I came away from the last game knowing more about him, and respecting him a lot more than I had in the past.

 

[kidsmoke]

Awesome guys thanks. And yes, I trust the tone of all assembled.

I think as PBP pointed out, part of Brady's appeal to lunchbucket New Englanders is that he was a bench warmer who stepped up, and and Steve Walsh says, works harder than anybody in the game week to week to be prepared for the next opponent.

I also agree that his submission to "coach", his obvious and articulated reverence to someone who is considered so arrogant and possibly unscrupulous is held against him. On the other hand, Brady's posture to authority IS the Patriot Way, and a HUGE part of the the success of the franchise. His tone is adopted by every athlete who comes on board, or you're out. It's leadership, plain and simple. Do what coach says, and we'll be ok. I believe that's what the greats do. Manning for sure does it. Montana did it. Favre stopped doing it. Staubach did it. Bradshaw. I didn't see Starr play, but it's Lombardi you hear about....tells me that despite their accomplishments with the ball, they conveyed to their teammates that is was the coaches team, not theirs.

I think this is where the players coaches run into trouble. Think about the posture of the great coaches on the sidelines. They were rocks. Landry. Knox. Parcells. Dungy! Remember Siefert's onmipresent scowl? this is where the rah rah i think can hinder success.
Pete Carroll is probably the best example, and he is certainly bucking that trend right now.

R_G...yeah, he gets spooked! Your Jets had him ducking from phantom rushers when they beat the Pats AT HOME to get into the AFC Championship game in '11. I think his legacy is a weight around his neck at this point in his career, when it gets to the big game. Early on, he wasn't even supposed to be here, and that was an asset.

sad how the Jets fortunes have changed since the '10 campaign. Hardly recognizable. Does Rex keep his job? Does the GM?

thanks for responding!!

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok, TK! You really hit on something!! That is one of the reasons I am not a fan of those teams, and those QB's due to my own experience with football as a player in high school. I was not, and am not, motivated by the Lombardi style of authoritative coaching. (EDIT: deleted long blabber about why that is.).

And interesting remark about Carroll. At first it was hard to be a fan, as I am a life long Husky fan and he came from arch enemy USC . But I really like his style as i watch this team. Interesting!

 

[piebaldpython]

In some respects, it's "easier" or less stressful to "get to the top" than to "stay on top".......just because everyone's gunning for you.

As to coaching.....the good coach is one who devises a plan and then lets his sergeant (QB) improvise as needed based on game conditions. The coach isn't the one taking the hits, etc, etc.

In Sundays win over the BUCS...the Iggles Noles called HIS own plays on the last 2 plays of the game because he didn't have any time (thank God) to get a play from Reid.

 

[R_of_G]

I so respect a good, disciplined and skilled offensive line, and they rarely get any press. Also, really good defensive lineman, or linebackers, or tight ends, or . . .

All 53. That's what most sportscasters/writers seem to forget the game is about. Football is a team sport, and highlight packages and Jon Gruden's superlative-laced spouting aside, there is no one person who ever won a game by himself*. Every QB threw it to someone. Every RB had blocking. And so on.

* This does not count Lawrence Taylor in every game of Tecmo Bowl I ever played.

I think part of Brady-hatin' ties in with Belechick-hatin'.......Siamese twins joined and despised by the perception that they are both cold, arrogant and aloof.

I'd contend that with Belichick it goes beyond perception. There's empirical evidence that he is all three of those things. Recall if you will the way he quit the Jets' head coaching job to take the New England coaching job. Look it up for yourselves if you guys aren't familiar with the story, but suffice it to say, there's a pretty good reason Jets' fans hate Belichick and it has nothing to do with wins or losses. He acted incredibly unprofessionally and unethically.

Then of course, there's the cheating. Patriot fans like to pretend it never happened, or worse, that he was vindicated. To the contrary, the league penalized the Patriots draft picks. It's subjective what effects it had on that Patriots' season (the last time they ever won a title) but it's not debatable whether or not it happened. He's a cheat.

All of that said, it's also not debatable that he's a great coach. His record says all it needs to.

One final thought.......Comeback Player of the Year Award should be neck-and-neck between Peyton Manning (neck) and Adrian Peterson (knee). My vote is for Peterson who is the only gun in the Vikings offense.

Peterson is also having one of the best seasons of his career. Both comebacks are impressive given the extent of the injuries. Peterson wins for me because of the sheer violence of his position, and he's often described as the most violent runner since Earl Campbell. That he can take that kind of pounding on a rebuilt knee and still dominate the game is unreal.

Besides, I long ago realized Peyton Manning was superman.

 

[Tig]

Peterson is also having one of the best seasons of his career. Both comebacks are impressive given the extent of the injuries. Peterson wins for me because of the sheer violence of his position, and he's often described as the most violent runner since Earl Campbell. That he can take that kind of pounding on a rebuilt knee and still dominate the game is unreal.

Watching Earl Campbell run was a pleasure. Usually we can't talk about Earl without mentioning Walter Payton or Jim Brown, but he was something special, regardless.
Someone mentioned they saw Earl on a flight recently, and he had to use a wheelchair to get around due to his knees being so damaged. What a shame for such a nice guy to be in that much difficulty and pain.

 

[marnold]

Yeah, I saw Earl YEARS ago on 60 Minutes (I think). The man could barely move back then. He was one of the few backs where I felt bad for the people who had to tackle him. I don't think there's been a more punishing back in my lifetime. I love Peterson (except when he plays the Lions) but he doesn't put the fear of God in DBs and LBs the way that Campbell did.

Of course, I have a special place in my heart for Barry Sanders, but he was a TOTALLY different runner.

 

[piebaldpython]

Iggles vs Bengals tonite.......Bombed themselves right away; then righted their ship, got back into the game, took the lead, looked good........and then dropped (sic) a load of depth charges right through the hull; thusly sinking their ship. Four fumbles out of their last 5 possessions.

 

[R_of_G]

Well those were three hours of my life I could use back. The secret is out on how to beat the Bucs. Just throw it. They have such a highly-rated run defense because nobody runs against them. You don't need to "run to set up the pass" against the Bucs, they'll just give you the pass. The offense was terrible as well. I'm not sure what that was all about today, but it was not a lot of fun to watch.
:thwap

 

[marnold]

Ugh. Just ugh. The Lions will likely be 4-12, back at square one, and up against the salary cap.

 

[NWBasser]

Sorry RofG and Marnold that things really didn't work so well for you guys.

Tig should be a happy camper. I actually got to watch some of the Texans game and they looked great.

Well, the Bills scored some points today against the Seahawks. A better effort than the Cardinals.

But nowhere near enough to overcome - 50 points!:happy

Wilson ran for three TD's and passed for another. Of course Lynch got one.

Wilson is freakin' awesome and I'm extremely stoked to have him on our team. I strongly suspect that he'll be the best QB that we've ever had.

 

[R_of_G]

For the two Seahawks' fans...

Your thoughts on faking a punt when up by 30?

I wasn't cool with that.

Wilson is awesome though. Proud to have told you that was coming.

 

[piebaldpython]

"Bad form" is what Captain Hook would says about the fake punt while trouncing the opposition.
Falcons looked good today.......Texans did good too.

 

[Tig]

"Bad form" is what Captain Hook would says about the fake punt while trouncing the opposition.
Falcons looked good today.......Texans did good too.

A "cheeky" move!

Texans managed to pull a late lead, but injuries limited their defense.
The Cowboys-Steelers game was a good one to watch. Too bad the Steelers didn't beat them in OT. I'm enjoying the SF-NE game right now...