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Trade Tang

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I have a friend who plays an Eric Clapton signature Strat (and plays it well). I have another friend who bought a $300AUD 335-copy (which is about half the price of an Epi Dot in Australia) from Trade Tang. My Strat-friend keeps coming round to my 335-friend's place to play the fake 335 cos he enjoys it so much more.

I have another friend who owns a Gretsch 5120 but who prefers playing my other friend's Trade Tang PRS.

I've heard some bad stories from Trade Tang, but I've seen myself some nice guitars from there. I don't endorse them ignoring copyright, but they don't pretend to be making the genuine article. They use the same names and model numbers etc as the real brands, but make it clear they're made in China (hence the cheap price). They will do whatever you want it seems, so why not get a Trade Tang version of whatever you want, and just get them to engrave your name on the headstock? And there seem to be dozens of different suppliers that use Trade Tang, so there are probably lots of dodgy ones and maybe just a few that actually produce decent guitars.
 
NWBasser said:
Am I the only one seeing the inconsistency here?
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I get what you're saying, but look at it this way: I could be in a Who tribute band, where everybody dresses exactly like the band did back in the heyday and we all play the same models they did and we play the songs note-for-note like The Who. Would we be pretending to be them? In one way, yeah. But in another way, it's just kind of dress-up, you know?

I'm not endorsing the behavior of Trade Tang. I'm just saying that there's more than one way to look at it.
 
I for one cannot go $2000 on a Les Paul, therefor I have a copy. I could have bought the Epiphone Les Paul which Gibson produces but I ended up getting a good deal on a cherry burst Xavier Les Paul and I love it. And I mod it freely without regret.
 
cebreez said:
I for one cannot go $2000 on a Les Paul, therefor I have a copy. I could have bought the Epiphone Les Paul which Gibson produces but I ended up getting a good deal on a cherry burst Xavier Les Paul and I love it. And I mod it freely without regret.
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Very good. I have no problem with a les paul copy that has its own brand name on the headstock. I have an Epi Les Paul myself.

I think it's disingenuous to manufacture a guitar under someone else's name on the headstock though.

With so many really nice LP copy guitars (Agile, Epi, Xaviere, etc.) made and sold under the appropriate brands, I see no reason the buy a direct knockoff of Gibson.
 
Knockoffs are a fact of life, whether it be a Gibson, a Rolex, a Louis Vuitton, etc.. Where there is a demand, someone will fill it.
 
Prostitution is also a fact of life. I don't endorse that either.

I don't think that buying a Gibson or PRS knockoff is a very good moral decision. If you need that name on the headstock to feel good, then I think a bit of self-examination is in order.
 
NWBasser said:
I don't think that buying a Gibson or PRS knockoff is a very good moral decision. If you need that name on the headstock to feel good, then I think a bit of self-examination is in order.
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I'd definitely agree with that. Unfortunately, such people do exist.
 
NWBasser said:
Prostitution is also a fact of life. I don't endorse that either.

I don't think that buying a Gibson or PRS knockoff is a very good moral decision. If you need that name on the headstock to feel good, then I think a bit of self-examination is in order.
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I'll bypass the prostitution argument, and I wasn't implying a laissiz faire attitude. But what you said about the "feel good" was my point, too. Unfortunately, we seem to live in a world highly populated by rampant consumerism, and the desire for visible status. Personal integrity doesn't seem to factor into the equation.
 
Bookkeeper's Son said:
I'll bypass the prostitution argument, and I wasn't implying a laissiz faire attitude. But what you said about the "feel good" was my point, too. Unfortunately, we seem to live in a world highly populated by rampant consumerism, and the desire for visible status. Personal integrity doesn't seem to factor into the equation.
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:applause
 
Lets cut to the chase, they are a fooling you into thinking you are buying a Gibson. Change the headstock and I would forgive them.
 
If I want an LP style guitar, I'll be looking for a Czech made Dean EVO. I just fixed one up for a friend. Really nice guitar. REALLY nice. I didn't want to give it back.
 
guitartango said:
Lets cut to the chase, they are a fooling you into thinking you are buying a Gibson. Change the headstock and I would forgive them.
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You really think they're fooling anybody? I don't. Well, maybe the people in the audience, but that's about it.

If they changed the headstock, I doubt anybody would buy from them, but I guess that's the whole point.
 
Yes I do Eric, maybe not a guitar player but stick one on ebay and people will start bidding thinking they are buying the real thing.
 
It takes about 5 seconds to look up reviews of Trade Tang on the net to realise they're not genuine. The guitar builders listed on Trade Tang offer to make whatever you want (including brands, serial numbers etc) but they are quite open about the fact that it's all cheap and Chinese-made. This discussion wasn't about fooling people on ebay; it's about Trade Tang. Anyone who actually thinks the guitars on Trade Tang are genuine would have to have an IQ lower than their tube amp wattage.

Some of the makers on Trade Tang actually build decent guitars. It's up to the consumer what brand etc they want on their guitar. The builders are unethical in using known brands, but the consumers are perhaps even more unethical for asking for those brands. In my view the best option is to order the exact details of the guitar you want, but get either no brand or some made-up brand put on the headstock. Use your girl's name for example - it would be original (for a headstock), it'd be ethical (not using a known brand), and it'd earn major brownie points with your girl!
 
Sada Yairi said:
It takes about 5 seconds to look up reviews of Trade Tang on the net to realise they're not genuine. The guitar builders listed on Trade Tang offer to make whatever you want (including brands, serial numbers etc) but they are quite open about the fact that it's all cheap and Chinese-made. This discussion wasn't about fooling people on ebay; it's about Trade Tang. Anyone who actually thinks the guitars on Trade Tang are genuine would have to have an IQ lower than their tube amp wattage.

Some of the makers on Trade Tang actually build decent guitars. It's up to the consumer what brand etc they want on their guitar. The builders are unethical in using known brands, but the consumers are perhaps even more unethical for asking for those brands. In my view the best option is to order the exact details of the guitar you want, but get either no brand or some made-up brand put on the headstock. Use your girl's name for example - it would be original (for a headstock), it'd be ethical (not using a known brand), and it'd earn major brownie points with your girl!
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What if your girl's name is Gibson? ;)
 
Sada Yairi said:
It takes about 5 seconds to look up reviews of Trade Tang on the net to realise they're not genuine. The guitar builders listed on Trade Tang offer to make whatever you want (including brands, serial numbers etc) but they are quite open about the fact that it's all cheap and Chinese-made. This discussion wasn't about fooling people on ebay; it's about Trade Tang. Anyone who actually thinks the guitars on Trade Tang are genuine would have to have an IQ lower than their tube amp wattage.

Some of the makers on Trade Tang actually build decent guitars. It's up to the consumer what brand etc they want on their guitar. The builders are unethical in using known brands, but the consumers are perhaps even more unethical for asking for those brands. In my view the best option is to order the exact details of the guitar you want, but get either no brand or some made-up brand put on the headstock. Use your girl's name for example - it would be original (for a headstock), it'd be ethical (not using a known brand), and it'd earn major brownie points with your girl!
Click to expand...

I think that's really the heart of the matter. Stick anything else on the headstock and I'm fine with that. Although I do suspect that you're more likely to get a better quality guitar from Agile or Epiphone though (oops, add in Dean, Ibanez, ESP to all that).

Sure, if you buy direct from Trade Tang, then you know its' not the real deal. But once those guitars hit the used market then there's a lot of potential for exploitation of uneducated buyers.
 
guitartango said:
So you buy it cheap from Trade Tang and then re-sell it on as a genuine gibson and some mug buys it....great.
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Yep, and from earlier posts, it appears that they've made great strides in nailing the look. It's gotten to the point that you have to be damn careful about buying a Gibson or PRS on the used market.

I'm sure it's happened that someone bought what they believed was the guitar of their dreams only to find out later it's a near-worthless fake.
 
So the issue is the dodgy person who buys the guitar then puts in on ebay and says it's genuine, more than the person who made it and said it's a chinese copy. Plus the whole 'buyer beware' thing - you can check serial numbers with the manufacturer and get advice on how to spot a fake. If it seems too good to be true...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing Trade Tang builders using known brand names, but the major issue for me is the first buyer. If anything, having cheap fakes in circulation can highlight the quality of the real thing, a bit like all the fake Rolex watches going round.
 
What astounds me is that as more people post how to spot a fake, the fakes continue to get better. I played a 1976 Black Beauty Custom the other day, and the thing was dead on. only way to tell it was a fake was the fretting. Now the fenders and Ibanez are further off.....Especially the fenders.....but the Les Pauls are getting too good to tell at first look. Mark my words in a few years these fakes will be identical to the real thing.
 
Wonder what Gibson will do then? Maybe when it becomes obvious that the actual guitars can be made for a fraction of the cost, that might drive down the cost of the originals? The manufacturers always claim higher production costs in the US (which is no doubt true), but they're now making Epiphones at their factory in China - perhaps genuine Gibson Chinese-made guitars will at some point become the mainstay of the Gibson lineup? There will always be at least a niche market for USA-made Gibsons, but their demand will surely diminish if top quality genuine Gibson made-in-China options are available (like the MIM Fenders).
 
Sada Yairi said:
Wonder what Gibson will do then? Maybe when it becomes obvious that the actual guitars can be made for a fraction of the cost, that might drive down the cost of the originals? The manufacturers always claim higher production costs in the US (which is no doubt true), but they're now making Epiphones at their factory in China - perhaps genuine Gibson Chinese-made guitars will at some point become the mainstay of the Gibson lineup? There will always be at least a niche market for USA-made Gibsons, but their demand will surely diminish if top quality genuine Gibson made-in-China options are available (like the MIM Fenders).
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that may be true. take the Pearly Gates Les Paul for instance. Gibson lists their BOTTOM END price at $11,176 US. Trade tang has one that looks very close for $410 US. Now if we say that these Chinese producers are doubling their money with each sale that means they can make it for $200. I know production costs in the US are higher, but they aren't 50 times higher.......

Don't get me wrong, what these counterfeiters are doing is wrong, but I do think that Gibson is gouging people in a way that would be haracy in any business other than guitars.
 

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