Need some help for new amp

[ZoSo65]

OK guys, one more post from me on this thread,,,,I delayed the shipping back of the ValveKing 212 for one day, so we(my friends and I) could jam with it.
OK, like I said, that's something I wanted to do so she could "breath". Well, with 2 other guitars, a bass, and drummer,,,the VK only at 12 o'clock(5 on the dial) was standing out like I was playing to an old phonograph,,,literally! It was truly amazing!
A couple of other friends stopped by and we had Black Betty and a 69 SG plugged in at the same time,,,VK didn't even blink!!!!
My hat off to Peavey for making such an excellent piece of equipment at a very affordable price, and it's built with quality to boot!!!!
If it didn't have the clarity that it does, you would think it was from the XXX line, and very close too, if not on, the 6505 line and the JSX,,,might sound unreal, but it's true!!
We also had Black Betty and an LP Studio going at the same time,,again,,unbeleivable!!! Also for sh*ts and giggles I plugged an Ibanez bass(active) into it, what a thumper!!! It's got tone up the wazoo!
The only thing that's bad, just for me(as I metioned before), it's just too much for me at this time, but atleast I found out what it can do, and BOY it can do it all!!!
I can only imagine what the DeltaBlues will be like for now, if it's anything like the ValveKing at 70 watts less, it'll kick booty!!!! And be perfect for what I need at the same time.
hey Nelskie, if you get the chance and cash, get the VK212, you won't be sorry!!!!
The 112's had/have a couple issues, but they are easily resolved, if not fixed by Peavey at this point, I even found a couple of mods first hand that allows for a bias adjustment,,but according to one of Peavey's top tech, bias is just about coming a thing of the past, with the new technology,,,he even went to mention about "matched" tubes and how it's basically a waste,,,eg. "take one of your matched tubes and shake it really hard,,,now it's not matched,,,shipping of them, amp movement,,etc etc,,,do the same thing
I mentioned before that Sovtesks are in most of the Peaveys being shipped, and according to this tech, they are not matched at all, which makes sense according to his "shakem' up" theory(which is right, only because I know a little about electronics) but an upgrade, especially to a set of JJ's from Eurotubes will make a hell of a differece, so will a speaker change.
Anyhoo,,,that's enough from me,,,LOL
Again ,,,I will miss the VK212, it's one awesome piece of fine equipment, as Peavey has always strived to be!

R

 

[Nelskie]

hey Nelskie, if you get the chance and cash, get the VK212, you won't be sorry!!!! R

Zoso - I played one of those Valve Kings at my local shop a while back, and I liked it a lot. Not only did it have the nice, chunky grind that I like, but the clean stuff was exceptionally good - glassy, toneful, definitive. The VK's variable Class A/AB texture control is another tasty little feature that offers some very cool tonal benefits.

I know guys who are spending several thousand dollars to get an amp that sounds as good as this one does. How Peavey can do it for $579 (2x12) is beyond me.

Right now, I'm not in the market for another amp. But if I was, you can bet that Peavey's Valve King line would be high on my list. It's a tube-powered monster that loves to rattle the rafters! That alone gets high marks in my book!

 

[blogan]

Zoso, 1/3 the power can still be very loud!!! For more information on getting tube tone at lower volumes, check out Amptone.

 

[warren0728]

Zoso, 1/3 the power can still be very loud!!! For more information on getting tube tone at lower volumes, check out Amptone.

great link blogan!

ww

 

[ZoSo65]

great link blogan!

ww

I concur, without a doubt!,,,Thank You blogan!!!

 

[blogan]

Thanks, guys! Amptone is a great site. :R I just wish it was updated with all the great low-power amps that are now available.

 

[blogan]

So, Zoso, when does the DeltaBlues arrive? :R I've been waiting to hear your opinion on it.

 

[ZoSo65]

So, Zoso, when does the DeltaBlues arrive? :R I've been waiting to hear your opinion on it.

The VK just arrived there this morning, so I'm assuming the DB has been shipped this afternoon. That's what I was told would happen. So, it should only be a couple days.

 

[Nelskie]

Let There Be Tone . . .

I do promote digital technology that coordinates with such physical gear, and I do support ongoing development of digital processing design and ergonomics, even though POD-type processing by itself sounds totally fake and unlistenable. Given that I have a tall stack of albums with authentic miked cranked-amp tone, there is no way I can justify suffering through fake processed tone; it's not competent

. . . And so the webmaster from Amptone.com came down from the mountain, clutching the stone tablets against his breast, having heard the words from the almighty gods of guitar tone. Let no man suffer through fake, processed tone, for it is totally unlistenable, and those who use it incompetent.

Well, if that wasn't enough of the high-and-mighty for one day, I then came across this little tidbit in Mr. Amptone's "Spirit of Amptone" State Of The Union address - *ahem* . . . *haarrrummmpph* . . .

Soon the whole guitar industry will be speaking the language I am teaching: the language of the middle-level analysis of rigs and Tone design, the block-diagram level which must centrally feature Bradshaw concepts and rack-inspired diagrams though these diagrams often now are centered around conventional amps and pedals.

My, my, my - those are both very bold statements.

Yes, Fretters, Amptone.com is a website chock-full of great information, albeit geared towards the classic, more traditional tube-powered amp designs. However, I, too, have a tall stack of albums, but see absolutely no reason to shun technology for the sake of spite, or even for the sake of general snobbery. The POD is what it is, and let me tell ya', it sounds damn good to me, as well as about a million other guitar players!! As a matter of fact, I'd even dare Mr. Amptone to go into the evil laboratories of Line 6, and see if his jaded ears could tell the difference between a real, honest-to-goodness vintage tube amp, and one of the Vetta II / Pod XT's fantastic, digitally-modeled creations.

As long as there's gear, there'll be people who think they know everything about everything. How it should sound. What's cool. What's best. The true test of good gear is very simply this: how do you think it sounds? In other words, learn to trust your own judgements regarding tone, sound, gear, etc., because in the long run, it's you that has to be satisfied with it - not someone like Mr. Amptone.

Anyways - just thought that was a point worth mentioning. It is a great website, by the way - in case you were wondering what I thought. Its the sermonizing I could really do without.

 

[blogan]

. . . And so the webmaster from Amptone.com came down from the mountain %< snip %< . . .

My, my, my - those are both very bold statements.

%< snip %<

As a matter of fact, I'd even dare Mr. Amptone to go into the evil laboratories of Line 6, and see if his jaded ears could tell the difference between a real, honest-to-goodness vintage tube amp, and one of the Vetta II / Pod XT's fantastic, digitally-modeled creations.

I agree. Sometimes I feel the same about those who claim differences between tube and SS amps, or between capacitor types or resistor types, etc... I wish the US guitar magazines would perform blind tests using both supposed experts and newbies to determine what type of amp is behind the curtain. I suspect they don't do this because the resulting blasphemy might result in loss of advertising dollars.

However, before you think I'm a complete tone heretic, I recognize that there are differences between live and recorded music. To analogize using pianos/keyboards (my first instrument), it can be very hard to tell the difference between a recorded miked concert grand and a recorded midi keyboard playing a sampler with a concert grand patch (maybe even impossible for most). It's much easier to hear the difference in a live setting. Even if you can't easily hear the difference live, for me, the difference in feel between a grand piano and a midi keyboard is HUGE! The way the keys feel, the infinite variation in volume, just the piano's presence...I will always give a better performance on the grand piano.

I suspect this is the same for those who prefer tube amps. So back to your point, I may not be able to hear the difference between a recorded tube amp and a recorded POD XT, but will the performer feel the difference? And will that feel result in a better performance on the tube amp?

 

[ZoSo65]

hmm, sounds like someone at amptone has a serious case of tunnel vision, or should I say tunnel hearing

,,even though POD-type processing by itself sounds totally fake and unlistenable.

(wise guy comeback),,,of course it does, you need to plug a guitar in to it first,,,DOH! R

 

[Nelskie]

... but will the performer feel the difference? And will that feel result in a better performance on the tube amp?

You make a very valid point, blogan. And no, I do not think you're a total heretic for thinking the way you do. But your point of "feel" is somewhat along the same lines as the point I was trying to make. There are many avenues of thought when it comes to guitar tone, tube-powered, solid state, hybrid, etc., and really, there is no right answer. I know plenty of guys who play solid state stuff and sound fantastic. Same thing with dudes I know who play nothing but tube-powered gear. All of them have an amazing feel for their music, and can turn on the mojo no matter what's powering the speaker.

As far as sound is concerned, having a discerning ear for a particular type of amp tone does not always equate itself into having a good "feel" for a song, or style of music; and vice-versa. Feel is derived from a great many other things besides amp tone, although it is a big part of the general equation of producing music that sounds good. There is also some subjectivity on the point of a guitarist giving a better performance due to using a tube amp vs. a solid state, or hybrid, or whatever. Throw a POD in front of Keith Richards, and tell him that his pair of original vintage Fender Twins are being shoveled, he'd probably have you tied and quartered. Me, on the other hand, it makes no difference whether my all-tube Classic 30 is behind me, or its my POD XT and Tech 21. I'm looking for good tone, and that's that. If it's sounding good, then the feel seems to naturally follow suit.

What amp / tube purists might fail, or not seek to understand is that the POD is not trying to be a vintage amp, or even a tube amp for that matter. The technology that is designed into the POD emulates each particular tone, meaning that it is a semblance thereof, and not the exact thing. The characteristics of how certain types of circuitry interact with those particular parameters are also electronically & digitally designed. What results is a tone with the characteristics of the original, which when weighed against the prospects of tracking down an original '58 Bassman, well - you know what I'm saying. It just does what it does - kinda' like the supermodel on the commercial who ask you not to hate her because she's beautiful.

So, would I play any differently through a tube amp vs. a POD? Well, to tell you the truth, no - I probably wouldn't. The reason behind that is that the amp is only part of the play / feel equation. Some of the other things you could throw into that mix include the type / model guitar, the type of music being played, the style of the guitarist, as well as style and contributions of the other band members. The venue also plays a big part of that, too, as tone reacts differently to rooms / auditoriums of varying sizes. So, as you seel, the "feel thing" can stem from any one, or combination of different factors.

Tube and solid state sounds also react differently in a tonal sense, and as such, there may be a perceptive difference to someone hearing it, though I would think that it might also depend on the person hearing it. For the tube amp afficianado in the front row, shooting me evil glances as my little red bean does its best to re-create the magic of a two-thousand dollar plus vintage tube rig, it probably won't cut the cake. To the casual listener in back, digging a cool blues vibe, he could care less if that small-watt, vintage tweed amp tone is courtesy of Line 6's army of MIT-educated amp freaks, or Cecil Hightower's Mega-Buck Collectible Amp Emporium. If I'm doing my job as a player, and the POD is doing its job as a pre-amp, what's coming out should be pretty darn close to the real deal sound-wise. In other words, if it looks like chicken, smells like chicken, and tastes like chicken, your brain will tell you that there's a good chance that what you're eating is chicken. Me - I'm having fun any way you look at it, most especially knowing that the tube dude is hating it to no end.

We all have our ideas as far as what we think sounds good, as well as what works for us. And really, that's part of the beauty of playing guitar, or any instrument for that matter - finding your own way.

 

[Tim]

Nelskie - You continuously amaze me with your excellent writing abilities. Have you ever thought about writing reviews for a magazine or to critique products? You have a gift my friend. Just thought I’d let you know what I was thinking.

 

[duhvoodooman]

Nelskie - You have a gift my friend.

I've told him the same thing! Best writer on the forum, by far. Still haven't heard any of his pickin', though!

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

Nice rant Nelsk.

I was in GC last weekend and I wanted to try a Schecter CSH-1 semihollow. The GC dude asked me which amp I wanted to use & I said a VOX AD30VT so that I could hear it through the amp that I have (albeit mine has a Celestion G10). When we got to that aisle there were a coupla' preeteens pretending to wail on the opposing Spyder II so I decided to move on & stumbled upon a vintage Fender Super Reverb. Well why not?!?

We plugged it into the clean channel & set the volume to about 1 1/2 - 2 and I started "playing" (I'm a total novice). It was the first tube amp I ever used. Man she sounded sweet! Rich, balanced, warm, & sparkly. Just incredibly good. Who needs dirty with cleans this sweet? I wandered back to the AD30VT after the wolves had finished ravaging their prey. No go, it sounded harsh & no amount of twiddling could get me anywhere near the SR.

Clearly, money can buy tone. Some say it is all in the fingers, but since I can't change my fingers it is reasonable to ask how best to purchase a bit of tone on the side. I can't afford the SR but it got me wondering how much of that sound was due to the tube & how much was the speakers & cab.

 

[warren0728]

tot,

next time you are at GC plug into the epi valve jr or the standard. A real cheap way to get into a tub amp.

ww

 

[Tone2TheBone]

ToT - While I love modeling amps (and own one) there is still nothing like the feel and sexy tone of burning tubes. So in the words of Ferris Bueller..."it is so choice...if you have the means...I highly recommend picking one up."

 

[6STRINGS 9LIVES]

i'd look at a fender vibro champ 5 watts and an 8" speaker , made between 64-78, the circuitry remained basically unchanged throughout that period the only major changes were the construction of the cabinet and the cosmetics , blackface from 64-67 , silverface 68-78 the early cabinet construction of the blackface models was of solid pine boards later changed to laminated pine , the early blackface vibro champs sound best to me , all tube, class a, point to point, and hand wired , and a absolute tone machine that takes pedals very well .. there have been many great recordings made with these amps and their tone is legandary .. the vintage market for these amps is very hot and prices run from 250-800 , a nice all original blackface vibro champ will probably run you 500.. but you will have a vintage fender amp with all that clean tone and tremelo and the 5 watts when turned up crunch and break up so sweet .. maybe my overall favourite fender amp and i own quite a few vintage fenders , the real up side is that if you buy an original piece it wont go down in value it will only appreciate and they are very easy to resell if you choose .. these amps are the perfect entry into the world of fender tube tone , and once there you wont ever look back , 6S9L

 

[Nelskie]

Nice rant Nelsk.

rant - n - a loud bombastic declamation expressed with strong emotion

2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence

3. To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.

Rant? Hmmmm . . . ? Actually, I thought I was rather diplomatic and open-minded about my the points I expressed in my post. True, there was the ever-present lure of a bit of good-natured sarcasm to keep things on the lighter side. However, such remarks were balanced with a deserved nod of approval to Amptone for the quality and wealth of information at their site, which I honestly think would further disqualify it as a "rant".

So, to the angry hordes of Fretters now marching on Amptone headquarters, throw down your torches and pitchforks! Return to your homes at once!

 

[warren0728]

ToT - While I love modeling amps (and own one) there is still nothing like the feel and sexy tone of burning tubes. So in the words of Ferris Bueller..."it is so choice...if you have the means...I highly recommend picking one up."

what he said....i love my vox but the day i brought home that little 5 watt epi valve jr. and plug in straight from the guitar and hit a note i was hooked. Its also when i discovered the volume knob on my guitar....ran the amp at about 2 o'clock for nice tube breakup distortion and then with a simple roll back of my guitar volume knob it cleaned right up with not much loss of volume.....sweet!

then when i picked up the peavey classic 20 all tube amp at a pawn shop....i became a tube convert....not sure i will ever get a ss modelling amp again....but i am keeping the vox.

ww

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

rant - n - a loud bombastic declamation expressed with strong emotion

2. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence

3. To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.

Rant? Hmmmm . . . ? Actually, I thought I was rather diplomatic and open-minded about my the points I expressed in my post. True, there was the ever-present lure of a bit of good-natured sarcasm to keep things on the lighter side. However, such remarks were balanced with a deserved nod of approval to Amptone for the quality and wealth of information at their site, which I honestly think would further disqualify it as a "rant".

So, to the angry hordes of Fretters now marching on Amptone headquarters, throw down your torches and pitchforks! Return to your homes at once!

Ahhh, now Nelsk don't get lexicographical on me! I was wiggling a finger in the general direction of the word *after* the semicolon in meaning 3 above. To wit, rave.

Rant on, Bud!

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

ToT - While I love modeling amps (and own one) there is still nothing like the feel and sexy tone of burning tubes. So in the words of Ferris Bueller..."it is so choice...if you have the means...I highly recommend picking one up."

I will at some point but I would have to try a lot first. The epi sounds like a good bet for lower volume overdrive, but for sweet luscious cleans I'd probably have to go elsewhere.

It seems like the ideal amp would be a high wattage amp with HUGE clean headroom for cleans at any volume with a small wattage amp like the nano head in front for tube overdrive.

 

[tot_Ou_tard]

i'd look at a fender vibro champ 5 watts and an 8" speaker , made between 64-78, the circuitry remained basically unchanged throughout that period the only major changes were the construction of the cabinet and the cosmetics , blackface from 64-67 , silverface 68-78 the early cabinet construction of the blackface models was of solid pine boards later changed to laminated pine , the early blackface vibro champs sound best to me , all tube, class a, point to point, and hand wired , and a absolute tone machine that takes pedals very well .. there have been many great recordings made with these amps and their tone is legandary .. the vintage market for these amps is very hot and prices run from 250-800 , a nice all original blackface vibro champ will probably run you 500.. but you will have a vintage fender amp with all that clean tone and tremelo and the 5 watts when turned up crunch and break up so sweet .. maybe my overall favourite fender amp and i own quite a few vintage fenders , the real up side is that if you buy an original piece it wont go down in value it will only appreciate and they are very easy to resell if you choose .. these amps are the perfect entry into the world of fender tube tone , and once there you wont ever look back , 6S9L

6S9L, is an 8" speaker large enough to let the music breath? Is there a cheaper modern amp with similar characteristics?

 

[frankno89]

Vox ad100vt

The VoxAD100VT has software problems. Wish I knew that before I bought one. The volume cuts off intermittently. The effects do not lock in, in other words, you may have the amp set to compression, but the wah wah effect comes up. The amp settings are the same way. You may have it set to UK and the AC30 pops in. Really unreliable. I bought it because it had better tone than the Marshall and Line 6 modelling amps. Wish I did not sell my 1967 Ampeg VT22, but it was more power than I needed and weighed a ton.

Hope this helps.

Let me start by saying hello to everyone as this is my first post here, nice forums BTW

I just built a guitar and I'm on the hunt for a new amp, and these are the 3 I have norrowed it down to.

Vox-AD100VT
Line 6-Flextone III Plus
Fender-Deluxe 900 DSP

I'm almost tempted to get the AD60VTX, but the price jump gets me a little. I know it would be worth it though.

I'll basically be using it for practice sessions and small gigs.

I'm looking for any kind of info on them, you know pros, cons, if anyone owns one, your experiences, etc.

Thanks
ZoSo65

 

[Duffy]

Super complicated design amps

I have a Fender Super Champ XD tube amp with a digital insertion of amp models and effects into the signal chain. I don't believe it is the same approach at all, as the Vox chromies and so forth have - valvetronics.

The Valvetronics and chromies have super complicated designs with expansive circuitry and several types of current and all sorts of circuits going on. There are a lot of component design elements and all sorts of things that can go wrong that can be extremely difficult to diagnose, isolate, and, if possible even, fix. These amps are super complicated.

I have a Vox DA5 that is a really cool amp and I have had to do some minor work inside it. It is super complicated as well with stuff directly mounted to the circuit board, such as the power supply jack and so forth. Luckily I was able to fix my power supply jack by soldering the cracked solder trace on the pcb that cracked from the power supply cord where it enters the socket getting bumped or something, causing the jack to put pressure on the pcb board and micro crack the solder trace. Luckily I was able to get to it, see what was going on and fix it myself.

I love that little Vox but it doesn't hold a candle to the dependability of the Fender SCXD, which amp techs tell me should be able to be fixed for many many years to come due to its simple design, comparatively speaking.

This is why amps like Hot Rod Deluxes and Blues Juniors will probably be able to be fixed for many years to come, and the handwired ones as well, supposedly. The ones made in America by Fender and Peavey, etc., have part sources that apparently agree to supply components for a long time; whereas the overseas, far Eastern plants make the amps from parts sourced out from companies close to their plants. These sources are often unknown to Fender and Peavey, etc. Therefore getting the parts to fix these amps after the initial production is often impossible. Seriously, as unreasonable as it may seem.

So, from my view, and my future plans; it is wise to get an amp that is made in America and is of a comparatively simple design and able to be fixed for a long time from now. Usually these are amps like Blues Juniors, Valve Juniors, a lot of traditional Fender amps, even the Fender Supersonic; Peavey USA made Delta Blues and Classic thirties, etc.

Then you just put your digital or analog pedals in front of them or in the loop to get all sorts of models that are probably way better than the Valvetronics, Vypyrs, etc.

This way you have a very dependable expensive amp that can be repaired for a long time and a relatively inexpensive, usually, digital multipedal that can be replaced inexpensively or replaced by a new version or different, possibly way better digital or analog multipedal or individual pedals or pedal boards.

I would buy a Valvetronics or Chromie if I could get a brand new one on a great blow out deal. I think it would be a great, largely disposable amp. But paying BIG money for one, like nine hundred dollars or five hundred dollars or even less, but a lot; I don't think it makes for a prudent decision. However, I'm sure many of us have proven me wrong by having these type amps for many many years without any problems. I also don't think they stand up to touring and giging well because of all the rough conditions of the road.

Not to sound like a presumptuous know it all, I have thought about it a lot and believe that super complicated, digital, computerized amps are reliability risks that have to be considered in respect to the purchase price, which is often quite expensive: expensive enough for one to purchase a real good more traditional, simpler designed Vox AC fifteen, Hot Rod Deluxe, or any of a wide range of long known, consistently mfg'd amps that have a history of being able to be repaired cost effectively.

Hope my ideas are of some use to someone and don't get too many other members p***** off.

 

[deeaa]

I definitively agree Duffy, and that was the main concern of mine when I bought my last amp. it was between a marshall jvm and a handbuilt simple el84 Ceriatone. I loved the jmv but I figured I would want an amp that will last me a lifetime and not give me grief even after 20 years of use. I shudder to think of servicing a jmv 20 years from now. I figure, I can get me a jmv or whatever too some day, but havingowned nd played so many amps over the first 20 years I've played, I felt I finally need to buy an all new quality amp I can count on and play for the rest of my life and leave to my sons some day

the Ceriatone is simple, but it has the basic sound that's pure ultimate tubeamp all the way and I can use pedals and get anything out of it. I still might getthe jmv too, a and hopefully many more amps as well...but I'm so glad I bought what I did.

 

[Eric]

Except that it is extremely rare for guitarists to say with the exact same rig their entire careers. Check George Lynch's website sometime. He changed amps from album to album and tour to tour. EVH, Vai, Satriani, and countless others are all the same way.

When you are starting out, you really have no idea what you like. I've messed with just about every amp type on the Vox, but lately have settled into the UK70 for metal/rock tones, the Tweed 4x10 for blues, and the Boutique CL for clean tones. BUT, it took me a year and a half (and the addition of an overdrive pedal) to come to these conclusions.

Note that I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. In the beginning I raved about the NuMetal amp, but now I don't use it as much.

I know this thread is old and has just been revived, but I thought I'd give you a big +1 on this. I had (and, in many ways, still have) very little idea what I actually like. There are SO many options out there, and nobody wants to admit that they have no idea what they want when they are starting out.

I suppose you're a tube convert now that you have your Jet City, but the point of this was just to say that I agree with a lot of what you said.

 

[Commodore 64]

I'm glad this thread got revived, because there was a ton of great info in it, that I would have never read otherwise!